menu Menu

1991 10 10 MADHURYA KADAMBINI FIRST MEETING 1

Śrīla Gurudeva: Again I went without sleep. No sleep. Something is...

GBC: What were you writing about?

Śrīla Gurudeva: About...

There are four books – they are out of press so I am going to reprint. So, (with) some corrections. And about Navadvīpa dhāma parikrama in Hindi. In Bengali there are so many books. In Hindi there are no books. All Gaura maṇḍala plus Navadvīpa maṇḍala. What has been related in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta.

GBC: Copyright. You should make sure about your…When you write, publish, your books the copyright.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Accha.

GBC: Someone. The books should be copyrighted. There should be copyrights.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So that none can publish.

GBC: Yes. Or, if you want everybody to publish, then don't copyright. What is your desire?

Śrīla Gurudeva: As Rūpa Gosvāmī – what he has done.

GBC: (laughter) No copyright. Because that book, Kṛṣṇa's Holy Land, there was some copyright.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Accha?

GBC: That Jagannātha dāsa wrote his own name as the copyright.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I have prohibited him not to do.

GBC: But he did that in that book. But I have inquired and found out that whoever the author is he has actually got the copyright. No matter what is said. Unless he gives…

Śrīla Gurudeva: I have not seen yet what he has done. But I have strictly forbidden him not to do anything like he has done. I can not do. Navina (now Madhava Maharaja) can not do or any of our society can not do. To whom I can give this they can not do. I don't want.

GBC: He put it in his own name. But I found out from one person that unless Mahārāja gives in writing…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Ha! No…

GBC: It doesn't matter what Jagannātha has written he does not have the copyright, Mahārāja has the copyright.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Ha! I know. I know I have not given any permission, anything. He wanted this permission. I told, "I will never give." Then he became furious and began to leap and jump. I told him that, "You are very swarthi. I have given everything without anything. What I do – I do for all. Not for me or any special person. Rūpa Gosvāmī or Vyāsadeva has even not given his name that I am author of this book. They were very broad-minded.

Some books are so that even anyone does not know that who has written this book. We don't want to bhakti but we want money, fame, and all these things.

Anyhow. What?

GBC: Mādhurya Kādambinī

Śrīla Gurudeva: (Flipping through pages of book) By reading you can do everything. You only revise.

What questions before you have?

GBC: I don't know who is having specific questions about Mādhurya Kādambinī.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You have read something?

GBC: We read the first chapter.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You also?

GBC: We all have.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Anything that you can not follow? You follow all these things? (Speaking Hindi to others).

These are commentaries?

GBC: It's the same as what he has.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not commentary?

GBC: No, this a translation. By…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Translation? Of commentary by…?

GBC: No, translation of the Mādhurya Kādambinī by Vanu Svāmī. You know one Japanese sannyāsī who lives in Māyāpur much of the time? From ISKCON.

GBC: He is a disciple of our guru Mahārāja. He knows Bengali and some Sanskrit also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh, you have…You have done?

GBC: No.

GBC: So, uh…Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura quotes the verse:

dāna-vrata-tapo-homa
 japa-svādhyāya-saṁyamaiḥ
śreyobhir vividhaiś cānyaiḥ
 kṛṣṇe bhaktir hi sādhyate

[Devotional service unto Lord Kṛṣṇa is attained by charity, strict vows, austerities and fire sacrifices, by japa, study of Vedic texts, observance of regulative principles and, indeed, by the performance of many other auspicious practices. SB 10.47.24]

Devotion to Kṛṣṇa is accomplished by such things as charity, austerity, homa, japa, study, sense control, and other pious activities.

Then the translation of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, "However, this statement refers to bhakti in the mode of material goodness which belongs to the system of jñānī rather than transcendental, fully spiritual bhakti in the category of prema."

Then he says, "Of course, some people say that charity is giving to Viṣṇu and the vaiṣṇavas that vrata, or austerity, refers to such vratas as Ekādaśī. Thus they are all aṅgas, or limbs, of sādhana bhakti. To say that bhakti is attained by these aṅgas is not correct for this simply means that bhakti is caused by bhakti."

So, what is this bhakti in the mode of material goodness which belongs to the system of jñānī?

Śrīla Gurudeva: What have you understood?

GBC: Material goodness which belongs to the system of jñānī.

Śrīla Gurudeva: (Hindi aside).

GBC: He quotes one śloka: dāna-vrata

Śrīla Gurudeva: You understand perhaps?

GBC: He wants an explanation.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You can tell.

GBC: (No response)

Śrīla Gurudeva: There are two ślokas here quite opposite meaning: bhaktir hi sādhyate (and) bhaktir no sādhyate. Understand? By yoga, sāṅkhya, dāna, vrata, tapa, ādhyāya, meaning yajña, sannyāsī (unknown).

If anyone is following yoga, sāṅkhya, dāna, vrata, tapa — first śloka — any yajña, everything, with very care, yet they can not have bhakti — huh? This is first thing.

And anywhere else in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam — this is a śloka of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. And:

dāna-vrata-tapo-homa
japa-svādhyāya-saṁyamaiḥ
śreyobhir vividhaiś cānyaiḥ
kṛṣṇe bhaktir hi sādhyate 

And here it is written that by dāna-vrata-tapo-homa / japa-svādhyāya-saṁyamaiḥ / śreyobhir vividhaiś and other, by means, bhakti can be had. Huh?

So, why these different opinions? Different statements? First is quite right. Quite right here.

Second, by dāna-vrata-tapo-homa and svādhyāya-saṁyamaiḥ by these aṅgas bhakti can not be. So many places it has been written, authentic books. Our gosvāmīs have also written like this. But why? Here Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura is telling that there are three kinds of bhakti:

    • karma-miśra-bhakti
    • jñāna-miśra-bhakti
    • and  viśuddha-bhakti — svarūpa-siddha-bhakti.

Here it has been told for jñāna-miśra-bhakti jñāna pradhānī-bhūta. Understand pradhānī-bhūta? Jñāna is superior there and bhakti is for sādhana of jñāna.

So, here bhakti is subordinate to that jñāna. So, jñāna-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, can be achieved by all these things. But prema-bhakti, śuddha-bhakti, can not be achieved.

GBC: Not uttamā-bhakti

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not uttamā-bhakti. As like:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

[One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me. Bg 18.54]

This is jñāna-miśra-bhakti and after that, if any association of śuddha-vaiṣṇava is found, then they can go in uttamā-bhakti. Or he has, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has told dāna means "to give." Not dāna. There are two kinds of givings. One is dāna means having some motive for giving anything to anyone, sakāma. And for service anything can be given to guru, vaiṣṇava.

Having no desire to receive anything for that thing. So, dāna means

dadāti pratigṛhṇāti
guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati
bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva
ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam

[Offering gifts in charity, accepting charitable gifts, revealing one's mind in confidence, inquiring confidentially, accepting prasāda and offering prasāda are the six symptoms of love shared by one devotee and another. Śrī Upadeśāmṛta 4]

That dāna: to give vaiṣṇavas, or guru or to Kṛṣṇa, anything is dāna here.

And vrata: Ekādaśī, Janmāṣṭamī — these vratas.

Tapaḥ: meaning Ekādaśī tapaḥ, kārtikka vrata tapaḥ — these are tapaḥ.

Homa: homa meaning vaiṣṇava homa.

Japa: Gopāla mantra, kāma gāyatrī, guru mantra — all japa.

Svādhyāya: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-Caritāmṛta and all other books.

Saṁyamaiḥ: yukta-vairāgyayukta-vairāgya you know? Yukta-vairāgya. By this sādhana bhakti will be done and after that bhāva bhakti will come and then uttamā bhakti will come.

Tikka huh?

GBC: That is a way to reconcile.

GBC: And then bhakti is caused by bhakti because they are all…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Bhakti is by bhakti.

GBC: They are aṅgas.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Because to give anything for the service of guru and vaiṣṇava is bhakti. To chant to japa, Gopāla mantra and all these things is bhakti. Ekādaśī, Janmāṣṭamī vrata are bhakti. Everything are here. Why he has kept the name of this book Mādhurya Kādambinī?

GBC: The cloud holds the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Which is…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Huh? Cloud holds mercy…?

GBC: …of Caitanya Mahāprabhu which is falling on the seed to nurish bhakti?

Śrīla Gurudeva: What is this?

GBC: The cloud gets the water from ocean. So, the ocean of mercy is Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa. And then He is returning that; He is pouring that down. And then this is what Mahārāja is saying.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Here he is explaining navadha-bhakti as a seed in our heart.

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

["According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service. CC Madhya 19.151]

In Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. By the mercy of guru, or by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu Bhagavān, we can have the seed of bhakti. These are śasya:

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam

["Prahlāda Mahārāja said: 'Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Viṣṇu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord's one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words)–these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Kṛṣṇa through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.'" {SB 7.5.23-24, Madhya 9.259}]

Or five kinds of bhakti.

(Hindi aside)…

Are five kinds of bhakti. Especially very helpful for rāgānuga:

sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa
mathurā-vāsa, śrī-mūrtira śraddhāya sevana 

["One should associate with devotees, chant the holy name of the Lord, hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, reside at Mathurā and worship the Deity with faith and veneration." (Madhya 22.128)]

śrī-mūrtira sevana like Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī has served śrī mūrti. Rūpa-Sanātana Govinda, Mādana-Mohana. Gopāla bhaṭṭa has Rādhā-Ramaṇa. Bhāva sevā.

Mathurā vāsa means Navadvīpa vāsa, Puri vāsa, especially Vṛndāvana, Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Śyāma–kuṇḍa — all these places.

If not by body (then) by mind. By mind is perhaps superior. If an unqualified person lives in Vṛndāvana or in Rādhā-kuṇḍa and takes daily bath in Rādhā-kuṇḍa but mentally he is not in Rādhā-kuṇḍa and he is anything gaining from good association then it is better to live by mind if he is qualified. So, we should be very careful to live in Vṛndāvana or Rādhā-kuṇḍa or anywhere.

I have seen so many bogus persons. Don't know anything; only doing aparādha they live in Vṛndāvana and Rādhā-kuṇḍa and all other places. Only bogus persons. So, we should try to live by quality not outwardly: sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa.

Bhāgavata meaning especially by ṭīkā, commentaries. And always thinking about all these commentaries especially I prefer Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura.

Jīva Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī are origin of all these things but yet he has done so beautifully, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, and useful for us. So these are śasya; śasya means seeds. Like a tree and all other things: śasya.

GBC: They are like water or like seeds? The śravaṇaṁ, kīrtana

Śrīla Gurudeva: Corn. Corn?

GBC: Corn? Bīja.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not bīja. Rice patty all these things are called corn?

GBC: Grains.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Grains – annaśasya. Fruit may be all these things. Or, nava-[vidhā] bhakti, by the grace of guru, by the grace of vaiṣṇavas, if you have new bhakti, these are called śasya grains and all other things.

The mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives [jīvātmā] śakti like clouds give rain showers and by that everything gets new life. Here Caitanya Mahāprabhu mercy is clouds and from there rain showers are coming. He is telling that…in English it has been written perhaps you understand all these things.

GBC: But we especially like to hear from Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Your time is very precious.

GBC: When I read it is very dry and abstract, but when I hear you it's different.....

Śrīla Gurudeva: Here our prārabdha; prārabdha you know?

GBC: Manifest. Sinful reactions.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Our acts of previous births. These are called saṁskāra or prārabdha; by which our this bhakti is going on.

GBC: Like karma.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Like?

GBC: Karma.

Śrīla Gurudeva: The fruit of karma. The taste of which we have come in this life.

GBC: It is the mature fruit…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Fruits…

GBC: …of the…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Previous karma.

GBC: Current situation.

Śrīla Gurudeva: There are so many. First is avidyā then aprārabdha karma; lakhs and lakhs of births all are gathered there. Karma, fruit, aprārabdha

GBC: Karma phala.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Yeah, karma phala. Kūṭa means (indistinct) of all karmas and prārabdha.

Among them some are give fruit. They are not in a position to give fruit at that time. After so many years they will give fruit so they are called aprārabdha. Now our karma for this body is prārabdha karma.

by that prārabdha karma we are being heated. What meaning?

GBC: Burning.

Śrīla Gurudeva: We are burning. Always tritap.

If there is no rain falling but yet clouds are there, there is something gained. All heat is…

GBC: Released.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Released and we hope that there will be rain shower. So, every rivers, river meaning our heart, is so much praphulya.

Other: Satisfied.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not satisfied. They become so glad, happy. Happy means something or [mūlas].

GBC: Joyful?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Joyful, may be meaning.

Niraṅkuśaḥ kṛpā, niraṅkuśaḥ kṛpā, niraṅkuśaḥ in original. Niraṅkuśaḥ meaning whether he may be pāpī or not pāpī; he may be durācārī, not durācārī; anyone he may be. He has śrāddha or not, anything. But when he comes in the sight of Caitanya Mahāprabhu His mercy falls. So, here he is telling that my heart is like a tree which is in maru bhūmi, desert. No? And it is about to be dry. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu mercy, as a cloud is seen, it is very joyful and if there is rainy shower, before rainy shower, by ābhāsa, bhakti ābhāsa, prema bhakti, that is bhava, His mercy can give prema. He is telling that before rainy shower that is in ābhāsa, bhāva bhakti, this tree becomes so green.

GBC: Already.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Yes. Already. What to tell when rain will be. So, I pray for such a Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy.

GBC: This is very good. If you…I think you should go through it step by step; because whatever we may have, as Satsvarupa Mahārāja said, it is more dry, but when you speak it it is much better; more clearly realized.

(side)

GBC: Yes exactly the point; it's like a shower.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Like Jagāī-Mādhāī, [Chapala] Gopāla, you know [Chapala] Gopāla?

GBC: Yes.

GBC: And like Kusta vipra. Kusta vipra in [Dekhan] South India.

(Hindi aside — the brahman who had leoprosy)…

And there are so many instances of those who came in touch of Caitanya Mahāprabhu what maybe they, they may turned in prema bhakti. So, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura is praying for Caitanya Mahāprabhu. A man can tell that, "Why you are praying for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy? Because he is already, He is anyhow (Hindi aside)…He is…Whether you will want or not want, He has come to give you surely prema bhakti. Then what is the use of praying? One thing is there. Kala Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Kala Kṛṣṇa dāsa you know? Who went with Caitanya Mahāprabhu but he could not have that mercy. Or someone like that fellow Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy is not bound by anything. He is swatantra niraṅkuśaḥ. Niraṅkuśaḥ means for an elephant aṅkuśa is needed.

GBC: Goad. The elephant goad. G-O-A-D. Goad.

Śrīla Gurudeva: G-O-A-D. Goad is needed. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu this mercy is not…

GBC: …doesn't require a goad.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He is niraṅkuśaḥ; niraṅkuśaḥ meaning no reason, nothing.

GBC: Causeless.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Causeless. He can do His mercy upon anyone without any reason. So, He will do all others but I may be escaped. So, he is praying that Caitanya Mahāprabhu should give His mercy. He is telling that:

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam

[SB 7.5.23]

The sixty-four, among sixty-four aṅgas these are [pramukhya], these are important. Bhakti can be had only by the mercy of bhakti, or by the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, or the mercy of bhaktas; but three are the same thing. The mercy of bhakta is mercy of God and mercy of bhakti also. How? How?

GBC: God acts through the devotee. The Lord bestows His mercy in the form of sending the devotee. The devotee is the more merciful.

Śrīla Gurudeva: That may be.

GBC: Power of Attorney.

Śrīla Gurudeva: But by bhakti, bhakti comes. This theory may be wrong. By telling that by themercy of bhakta bhakti is coming.

GBC: But a bhakta has devotion in his heart; so, it is coming from bhakti.

Śrīla Gurudeva: This is ṭīkā. One thing, anywhere it has been stated, that, if Bhagavān is giving bhakti to anyone, why He is not giving to all? Why he is especially giving to anyone? So, if God gives, by the mercy of God, Kṛṣṇa, bhakti comes, it is huh…

GBC: Favoritism…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Yes. Favoritism.

GBC: Partiality.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Partiality. If a bhakta gives bhakti to anyone it is also partiality. But he is telling that for madhyā bhakta it is not partiality; for God it may be partiality.

GBC: It is not a fault.

Śrīla Gurudeva: It is fault.

GBC: If madhyama-bhakta gives it is…

Śrīla Gurudeva: If Bhagavān gives, Kṛṣṇa gives, it may be called as a fault. If uttama-adhikārī gives it also may be as a fault, but if madhyama-adhikārī gives it is not a fault. Why? Because it has been stated in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam that:

īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
 bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā
 yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ

[An intermediate or second-class devotee, called madhyama-adhikārī, offers his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a sincere friend to all the devotees of the Lord, shows mercy to ignorant people who are innocent and disregards those who are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. SB 11.2.46]

Those who do prema to Kṛṣṇa, maitrī to vaiṣṇavas, and kṛpā to inferiors, and upekṣā to those who are opposite of bhakti, it is the lakṣaṇa of madhyama-adhikārī bhakta. So, if he gives no harm; no fault. But without mercy of Kṛṣṇa a bhakta can not give. Bhāgavata kṛpā is in the anygamani of bhakta kṛpā. When an uttama-adhikārī can not do any prarthana that, "Oh God give him prema bhakti." He can do?

GBC: He is equal to all.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Equal to all but a special thing is that he knows that everyone has bhakti; uttama-adhikārī sees everyone as uttamā bhakta. He knows that everyone, even Kaṁsa, has prema-bhakti. He does not see anything without prema bhakti. All are serving, by direct or indirect, they are all loving Kṛṣṇa and doing service to Kṛṣṇa. So, he will not pray for anyone that, "He should have Your mercy."

But madhyama-adhikārī does not see like this because he is not uttama-bhakta. If any uttamā bhakta prays for anyone, that is he come at that time, in any reason, he has come to madhyama-adhikārī; this is the act of madhyama-adhikārī. So, madhyama-adhikārī can pray for Kṛṣṇa mercy; and by hearing Kṛṣṇa will fulfill his wish because it is karuṇa of Kṛṣṇa. So, it is not fault for Kṛṣṇa to fulfill the madhyama-adhikārī wish and to give mercy to anyone. So, here three things are from bhakti: Kṛṣṇa has samvidā and hlādinī, in his heart; bhakta also from Kṛṣṇa, they have these things and this is called bhakti. So, there is no fault.

GBC: Is this when…the madhyama-adhikārī, he gives, it seems like he can only give, he can give sādhana bhakti he can not give siddha bhakti, the madhyama-adhikārī…it seems like only uttamā-bhāva-bhakta can give sādhyāḥ bhakti.

Śrīla Gurudeva: That is true. They can only show the path. Nārada, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī, they can give prema. As a friend equal there are so many things. This navadha-bhakti can be had from Caitanya Mahāprabhu mercy. Without mercy we can not have these things. And this bhakti, sādhana bhakti, parīpākaḥ is bhāva bhakti and parīpākaḥ of bhāva bhakti is prema; parīpākaḥ means…

GBC: (indistinct: result)

Śrīla Gurudeva: (indistinct) ācārya. Second…

GBC: What is the verse, Sanskrit verse?

Śrīla Gurudeva: (unknown verse)

GBC: We can only…is there an example given of it from some other śāstra that we can find it?

Śrīla Gurudeva: This is in mood.

GBC: We don't have that…we only have the…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Only the translation?

GBC: No, we have the…

GBC: Sanskrit.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Sanskrit?

GBC: When he gives an example from some other scripture, some śloka, then we have that.

Śrīla Gurudeva: And original?

GBC: Original we only have the translation, not the…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not original?

GBC: No. We don't have the Sanskrit. We only… Just like… Here is the original. Whenever he quotes some Sanskrit like

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

[And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. Bg 14.27]

that he has given.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh. And…

GBC: …other things he has only given the English translation.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Acchā.

GBC: So, if you, when you speak a new part if you tell us some example of some śloka then we will…

Śrīla Gurudeva: bhakti…(not available - first page of Mādhurya Kādambinī).

So, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he is praying to Rūpa Gosvāmī. Second. Brahma…(not available - first page of Mādhurya Kādambinī) before this. Original…very beginning. Very beginning. What he…in meaning what he has given?

GBC: I pay my continual obeisances to Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī, dear-most of the Lord, by whose mercy the intelligence is attained to see bhakti manifesting it's complete (indistinct: blesses).

Śrīla Gurudeva: He is here telling that speciality of Rūpa Gosvāmī. And here is the speciality of bhakti. Before Caitanya Mahāprabhu so many persons, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva, Sanaka, Sananda, Sanātana [and Sanat-kumāra], and uh…Nava-yogīndrāḥ about whom in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam so many things are given. They have done bhakti to Kṛṣṇa but not like Rūpa-Sanātana.

So, there bhakti was not as a rāsa. But what Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, or other gosvāmīs have given bhakti, this bhakti is rāsa svarūpa. Prahlāda Mahārāja's bhakti is called only jñāna-miśra-bhakti, not jñāna-miśrajñāna? Prahlāda Mahārāja is jñānī-bhakta; Sanaka, Sananda, Sanātana, [and Sanat-kumāra] are also jñānī-bhakta. What is the meaning of jñānī-bhakta? Not Nirviśeṣa-vāda here.

Jñānī means they always remember that Kṛṣṇa is seen as a boy but he is (indistinct: sarvaiśvarya).

GBC: He is the Supreme Lord.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Supreme Lord. I am very part and particle of that. Here only dāsa bhakti can be done. No prema bhakti. So, all other bhaktas, before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they were practicing only that kind of aiśvarya-moya bhakti. And what definition has been given of vaiṣṇavata in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam?

(SB 11.11.29-32)

There are twenty-six qualities of uttamā-bhakta but last one is Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa; kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa meaning those who are fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If this only one virtue is not there among 26 then all are in vain. No? And if bhakti, surrendered bhakti, that is śaraṇāgati, is there, then all virtues are virtues. What Caitanya Mahāprabhu has told that: (iho bhajas śaraṇāgati). Śaraṇāgati is no doubt very good thing; but it is not prema bhakti. It can give an entrance in bhakti rajya only. So, Nava-yogīndrāḥ, and all others in eleventh (canto) of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, they are doing bhakti, they know and they are realized souls even, but not doing Vraja bhakti. Only Vaikuṇṭha bhakti they can do/give or they can practice.

Ṭīkā?

GBC: (indistinct)

Śrīla Gurudeva: So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this bhakti only to a few number of persons; not to all. Those who came in the sight of Caitanya Mahāprabhu He gave them; but Rūpa Gosvāmī, by writing in books, and practicing in Vṛndāvana he has done sulabh for all; sulabh means? Available for us also. Whether we can do or not but we can have greed by reading his books. And we will have any source…we will discover any source how to get it.

If there was no Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu and books of Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī or Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Jīva Gosvāmī we are quite blind. Caitanya Mahāprabhu came, He gave and that's all.

GBC: Can I ask a question?

Śrīla Gurudeva: What?

GBC: Previously you said that a rūpānuga vaiṣṇava must be a mādhurya bhakta. Following… must be in the line of Rūpa Gosvāmī following in the footsteps of the gopīs; but perhaps someone could say that a rūpānuga vaiṣṇava should be Vraja bhakta, someone who is following the Vrajavāsīs. It may be sakhya rāsa it may be in parental mood or it might be in conjugal mood but anyone of them is a rūpānuga vaiṣṇava.

Śrīla Gurudeva: They will be rāgānuga bhakta and among rāgānuga bhakta some will be as a rūpānuga. Every rūpānuga is rāgānuga but every rāgānuga is not rūpānuga. They are all rāgānuga.

GBC: Just like someone may read even so many of the things that Rūpa Gosvāmī has written and there is not only the conjugal mood but there are some very nice līlās involving in Subala sakhā. So, they will become nourished.

Śrīla Gurudeva: They will be certainly but Vallabhācārya has also did so in his books. And all other (unknown)-sampradāya vaiṣṇavas has done so. So, it is rāgānuga. Especially his own heart will be seen here. If they are following Rūpa Gosvāmī, what he was doing, not written, he has written for general so many things, but what he has done, to follow him is rūpānuga. Those who are not following Rūpa Gosvāmī activities and his inner motives then he is not…Sanātana Gosvāmī has… Sanātana, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī.

You have read (Padavāli)?

GBC: No.

Śrīla Gurudeva: The writers of poems all are rāgānuga whom Rūpa Gosvāmī has collected but they are not qualified.

GBC: Not rūpānuga.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Rāgānuga bhakti was there. Here he is telling this thing, in this vṛṣṭi, that all ācāryas before Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Rūpa Gosvāmī they may be rāgānuga also; they may be. But the chance to go in Vaikuṇṭhiya bhakti, like Prahlāda Mahārāja or all others. Only Śrīmad Bhāgavatam we see Vṛtrāsura. Vṛtrāsura we something there but not openly he has written.

GBC: What is that thing?

Śrīla Gurudeva: This is svakīyā-bhāva it may be. It may be parakīya; he has not told clearly all these things.

GBC: (indistinct)

Śrīla Gurudeva: But Caitanya Mahāprabhu liked it. Jīva Gosvāmī has written so much on these ślokas.

GBC: But in Padavāli we see that some of the poets they have written very beautiful things about the inner moods of Śrīmati Rādhikā. Surely they must have been not only rāgānuga but even they must be…

Śrīla Gurudeva: No. They have written so many things but as a dāsī they have not told; nitya-sakhī and prāṇa-sakhī they can not be told. They are not following Rūpa mañjarī so how they can be told rūpānuga? Those who are following every actions and wishes of Rūpa Gosvāmī. As Rūpa Gosvāmī has two shapes — one parikara of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and one parikara of Kṛṣṇa. By inner he is associate of Śrīmati Rādhikā and upper he as Caitanya Mahāprabhu parikara but he is sādhaka there. And innerly he is not sādhaka. So, those who follow both things of Rūpa Gosvāmī is rūpānuga. When he is Rūpa mañjarī he has no anything. No other sight for sakhya-rāsa or vātsalya-rāsa or dāsa-rāsa. Even not kāmanuga. In kāmanuga only this maidservant of only Śrīmati Rādhikā as mañjarī. So, those who are following this they are rūpānuga.

GBC: And as a sādhaka, as Rūpa Gosvāmī, he may have sight of other things.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh uh…all other things. He is associating with sākhya bhava, Murāri Gupta, Anupama Gosvāmī. He is meeting with all them. But inner he will not meet. He can meet only to have any business for Rādhikā. How Kṛṣṇa can be had; how he can meet Kṛṣṇa; Rādhikā will meet Kṛṣṇa. For this only (indistinct); (indistinct: param–) means? What is meaning of (indistinct: param–) ?

Devotee: Suggestion.

Śrīla Gurudeva: For any suggestion.

Like Rūpa mañjarī can meet Subala for suggestion. He can meet Śrīdāmā also, Subala, Madhumaṅgala she can meet; but not she will have the idea of that sakhā.

GBC: So,

śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaḿ sthāpitaḿ yena bhū-tale
svayaḿ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaḿ dadāti sva-padāntikam

So, Rūpa Gosvāmī has established both the sādhaka and siddha desires of Caitanya Mahāprabhu in this world?

Śrīla Gurudeva: mano-'bhīṣṭaḿ means…we will have to think here…

anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnata ujjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam [hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandana]

Especially this thing. unnata ujjvala-rāsaunnata ujjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

Here anywhere I have seen of Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura he is telling that Rūpa Gosvāmī, or Caitanya Mahāprabhu, has not given unnata ujjvala-rāsa. He has not come to give unnata ujjvala-rāsa. Unnata ujjvala-rāsa is Rādhikā devī . He has come to enjoy that thing. So, it is only it is within Śrīmati Rādhikā unnata ujjvala-rasā, parakīya-bhāva, viśuddha, mahābhāva. That is called unnata ujjvala-rāsa. Sva-bhakti. Sva-bhakti here Śrīmati Rādhikā is sva-bhakti of Kṛṣṇa; sva meaning? Kṛṣṇa. who fulfills every desire of Kṛṣṇa. Bhakti means sevā; so, here sva-bhakti means Śrīmati Rādhikā and he is of unnata ujjvala-rāsa.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not come to give all these things. He has come to enjoy all these things. But He has come to give His śriyam; śriyam means sva-bhakti-śriyam, śriyam means śobha. Śobha means beauty. That is: if a creeper has mañjarī; without mañjarī anything has something lacking. If you touch the creeper mañjarī will be second more. And this is beauty of this creeper. So, Rādhikā's beauty Śrī are mañjarīs and their bhāva he came to give these things for jīvas. Not Rādhikā bhāva. Very important thing. Most sacred thing. I think that so many persons read Caitanya-Caritāmṛta.

(break in audio file)

…Rādhikā bhāva. Rādhikā bhāva he can do. Understand something?

GBC: Do you have any more questions?

GBC: He came to enjoy it not to give it, Rādhikā bhāva?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Rādhikā bhāva. And Rādhikā bhāva…Śrī…Śrī means śobha beauty, beauties are mañjarīs so mañjarī bhāva He has come to give mañjarī bhāva. This is general thing for jīva; jīva can not have Rādhā bhāva. There Rādhā dāsī they can have. Caitanya Mahāprabhu came and gave them Rādhā dāsī bhāva. And it is clearly written in Caitanya-caritāmṛta so. Rūpa Gosvāmī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu dialogue.

GBC: Can every jīva accept this if he is purified or just some jīvas who have that seed in their heart?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Only the jīvas who has seed like this. Every seed can not be mango. They can not be…they may be of others. So, every jīva has a special kind of svarūpa.

GBC: So, everyone who is attracted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement doesn't mean they are necessarily have this, will attain this mañjarī bhāva.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not surely, but they have chance.

GBC: They have chance.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Surely.

GBC: We are preaching very widely; all over India, all over the world. People are taking shelter of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Now, as he asked, will they necessarily be attracted in this way. The seed in their heart may not be.

Śrīla Gurudeva: We see that someone comes and joins and again goes. To Rāmānuja, Madhvācārya, or others, they go. They also go to hell also.

GBC: (laughter) Hell bhāva; narakāḥ bhāva.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So, everyone has not the same thing; but I think that the touchstone He can attract only iron rod, not others. So, we see that so many persons, those persons who are attracted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu they have something to be attracted.

GBC: Would it be more accurate to say Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to give mañjarī bhāva than rāgānuga in general? It says mādhurya in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta does that mādhurya refer to just the gopīs or spontaneous devotion?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Only the bhāva who Rūpa Gosvāmī that has, only it is to give for jīvas. Not of Śyāmala, (Bhadra), Śrīmati Rādhikā, Candrāvalī, that bhāva can not be given. They are beyond mahābhāva. So, jīva can only have Rādhikā dāsī bhāva. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has come to give this bhāva and to enjoy Rādhā bhāva. Though it is not clearly written anywhere but by instances and by preaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and by writing of Rūpa Gosvāmī and all others we see it clearly.

GBC: Someone is attracted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement they may also be attracted to Nityānanda Prabhu, they may also be in sākhya bhāva.

Śrīla Gurudeva: They may be. In Caitanya Mahāprabhu so many bhaktas there are.

GBC: Nityānanda has such a big… so many of his sakhās are there, friends.

Śrīla Gurudeva: It may be. No harm. Among them a few persons will have this mādhurya bhāva.

GBC: Some people have a seed of Vaikuṇṭha bhāva. Somebody practicing in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement but they don't come in touch with this…

Śrīla Gurudeva: At first no svarūpa whether they can join Rāmānuja, Madhvācārya, Mahāprabhu or anything. After going some anartha then it will be just. No svarūpa at all in this time. When anartha goes, and when he has some ruci, even niṣṭha can not give this thing. When his ruci will come, āsakti will come, it can be said a little that what his svarūpa may be.

GBC: But some people have the seed of Vaikuṇṭha bhāva in their hearts. Some people have that. Just like Nārada Muni.

GBC: And Bhisma.

GBC: Nārada also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Nārada has every kind of…he has so many svarūpas. He may be sākhya, he be of Vaikuṇṭha, he may be of Svarga, he may be. Where Kṛṣṇa līlā is going on he is in so many forms. And he is able to be in so forms.

GBC: If a bhakta practicing still has anarthas but he is interested to hear about svarūpa and gopīs, mañjarī bhāva, what is that interest, what is that inclination? It's not, you said it's not svarūpa yet. What is that?

Śrīla Gurudeva: In general these feelings of world it may be also.

GBC: Should that be encouraged?

GBC: His question is…

Śrīla Gurudeva: This should be encouraged for vaidhī-bhakti.

GBC: But he begins to hear now more than vaidhī-bhakti. He may be encouraged even though he still has anarthas?

Śrīla Gurudeva: If he has earnest desire. Otherwise he will lose something. Those who are practicing rāgānuga they can tell it. Whether they should be (indistinct) or not. But in these conditions no sign of rāgānuga-bhakti can be seen. And also will not (indistinct: just).

You are understanding?

When doing sādhana bhakti nava bhakti and all other bhaktis and he has actual greed. Actual greed means no attachment at all. Only to Kṛṣṇa. As Bilvamaṅgala he had so much attachment.; but when he inclined towards Kṛṣṇa he never saw that here and there. Only one towards Kṛṣṇa he saw.

GBC: But it sometimes seems that a rāgānuga vaiṣṇava he can see a spark in someone even though there may be so many anarthas and by his sādhu sanga he can fan that spark so much. It seems that way.

Śrīla Gurudeva: We can know something by Jaiva-Dharma by Vijaya Kumara and Vrajanatha and their preceptors. We can have some idea.

GBC: I think your clock is not working right. It works too quickly. It needs to be taken to the shop.

GBC: We will take it for you.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He is telling that Uddhava, Nārada, Śuka, Yāmunācārya. Who is Yāmunācārya? Guru of Rāmānujācārya. Nath muni, (indistinct: gauda) devī. These are of Rāmānuja sampradāya (indistinct: gauda) devī is svakīyā bhāva, mādhurya bhāva. Nath Muni is also of mādhurya bhāva.

They have done sevā to Kṛṣṇa with prema. Without prema in Vaikuṇṭha also there is prema. Vaikuṇṭha prema. They have done it. But rāga lakṣaṇa Vraja bhakti they have not done. Rūpa Gosvāmī has told the parts. Caitanya Mahāprabhu firstly He inspired in the heart of Rūpa Gosvāmī and others and they have shown in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu or by their practice.

So, here Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura first of all praying Rūpa Gosvāmī by his grace this bhakti can be had.

GBC: This is a very nice way to go. Slowly but surely through every day.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So many things can be…

GBC: So, much will come. Now tomorrow is our parikramā, remember we discussed about going on parikramā?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Tomorrow? For eleven? What is the date?

GBC: Tomorrow will be eleventh.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh.

GBC: Today is a very lucky day according to the Chinese.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Chinese?

GBC: Double ten it is called; because it is tenth October.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Accha.

GBC: October is the tenth month and it is the tenth day. This is a very good day according to the Chinese.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Accha.

GBC: So, we have come to you.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You will come tomorrow?

GBC: You were mentioning Bhāṇḍīravana.

Śrīla Gurudeva: OK. When you will come?

GBC: You should say.

Śrīla Gurudeva: When (indistinct).

GBC: You tell us Mahārāja.

Śrīla Gurudeva: What will be…?

GBC: Convenience should be yours. How to get back in the right time for you. You should calculate when you want to come back and then decide when you should leave.

Śrīla Gurudeva: It we start from here six, or before six even, if it is convenient for you to come before six…

GBC: We will come here early, at 5:30…

GBC: We will come here at 5:30.

GBC: And then when you are ready to go we will go.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I will be ready. I know that.

GBC: We will be here at 5:30.

Śrīla Gurudeva: (aside in Hindi). You can come. We can start from six from here.

GBC: What about your breakfast?

Śrīla Gurudeva: What will you bring?

GBC: Ah. We will bring some things. Some puffed rice.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You can.

GBC: What do you like?

GBC: He takes (indistinct) also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I want only Girirāja prema. (laughter) You can bring some prema for me as we do.

GBC: Is Māna-sarovara close enough to see too?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

GBC: When we see Bhāṇḍīravana can we also see Māna-sarovara?

Śrīla Gurudeva: In the way it will be. About two or three miles they can go. Bhāṇḍīravana and Māna-sarovara.

GBC: (unknown: Śyāmavana). Śyāmavana. Śyāmavana.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Śyāmavana?

GBC: It is right…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh, it is Bhāṇḍīravana, within Bhāṇḍīravana.

GBC: So much vipralambha.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You have gone once with me?

GBC: No not with you.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Who?

GBC: Just a pāṇḍā. (indistinct).

Śrīla Gurudeva: (indistinct). In the way we will chant and coming we will chant.

GBC: We all feel like we have made some progress.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You think so?

GBC: Yes and our questions are coming. When you read the text and speak it brings out questions.

GBC: But I am a thief I can not discriminate any more.

GBC: He is the biggest thief. The leader of the thieves.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Very innocent. Anything stole. Perhaps have stolen your Guru heart.

GBC: This is his specialty.

GBC: They are earning by honest means but I am not capable. So, I have to steal; I have no choice.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I'll have some fruits from here and eat.

GBC: We will bring some things also. We will have a picnic.

END AUDIO FILE

Transcribed December 2012 by Devananda dāsa