menu Menu

1991 10 14 MADHURYA KADAMBINI SECOND MEETING 2

Śrīla Gurudeva: Eleven we should start.

GBC: Ah uh. Eleven. You will begin from where you left off?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Have you read something?

(Hindi aside)…

GBC: Well, you were going to proceed, slowly but surely, through the whole thing. So, I think you had talked…

Śrīla Gurudeva: As you wish. As you wish.

GBC: You had spoken about obeisances to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, that was the last thing that you had mentioned.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Any question?

GBC: I had a question from the next paragraph where the verse is quoted: raso vai saḥ; what does it mean "the Lord in His form as rāsa is supreme. Can you explain that? Our translation says, "The Lord in His form as rāsa is supreme as in the scripture raso vai saḥ rasam." From the Upaniṣad.

GBC: Taittirīya Upaniṣad brahmā puccham pratiṣṭhā (2.5.2).

Śrīla Gurudeva: (@ 30 sec. silence) What is your question?

GBC: If you could explain why this Upaniṣad verse, raso vai saḥ, is given to explain that Kṛṣṇa is the form of rāsa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Why Kṛṣṇa comes with His associates and does so many pastimes? Hum? The reason he is going to explain. So, his is telling that Bhagavān is raso vai saḥ. He is raso māyā vastu. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam also:

mallānām aśanir nṛṇāṁ nara-varaḥ strīṇāṁ smaro mūrtimān
 gopānāṁ sva-jano 'satāṁ kṣiti-bhujāṁ śāstā sva-pitroḥ śiśuḥ
mṛtyur bhoja-pater virāḍ aviduṣāṁ tattvaṁ paraṁ yogināṁ
 vṛṣṇīnāṁ para-devateti vidito raṅgaṁ gataḥ sāgrajaḥ

[The various groups of people in the arena regarded Kṛṣṇa in different ways when He entered it with His elder brother. The wrestlers saw Kṛṣṇa as a lightning bolt, the men of Mathurā as the best of males, the women as Cupid in person, the cowherd men as their relative, the impious rulers as a chastiser, His parents as their child, the King of the Bhojas as death, the unintelligent as the Supreme Lord's universal form, the yogīs as the Absolute Truth and the Vṛṣṇis as their supreme worshipable Deity. SB (10.43.17)]

You know this śloka? The ten kinds of devotees, or ten kinds of persons, are seeing Kṛṣṇa in twelve ways. Someone seeing, mallānām aśanir, vajra-[tula], vajra means uh…

Audience: Like thunderbolt.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Thunderbolt. mal-aśanir Kṛṣṇa. The ladies are seeing Kṛṣṇa as a kāmadeva. Nanda Mahārāja as putra, son. The ṛṣis are seeing, ṛṣis also were there, they were seeing as a brahma or anything. Mathurāvāsīs are seeing, um Vṛṣṇivāsīs, para-devatā; that he is prabhu we are servant for devatā. And sakhā were there; they are seeing in two ways: hāsya rāsa plus sākhya rāsa. And [the likes of] Nanda baba is seeing in two ways: vātsalya rāsa and karuṇa rāsa. Why karuṇa? Because they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. So, he is karuṇa. From inner he is weeping to show Kṛṣṇa that all are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. Kaṁsa is also doing (unknown-sārjantra), sārjantra meaning he is…

GBC: Conspiracy.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh, you know? You know Hindi?

GBC: No, she said.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So, the main of ten qualities seeing Kṛṣṇa in twelve rāsas, this is raso vai saḥ for Kṛṣṇa.

GBC: Adbhuta.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Adbhuta. Some are seeing in the arena adbhuta; seven plus five. But Kṛṣṇa is also very karuṇa. He has so much pity for jīvasparama-karuṇa. So, two things make Kṛṣṇa to come down:

prema-rasa-niryāsa karite āsvādana
rāga-mārga bhakti loke karite pracāraṇa
rasika-śekhara kṛṣṇa parama-karuṇa
ei dui hetu haite icchāra udgama

[The Lord's desire to appear was born from two reasons: the Lord wanted to taste the sweet essence of the mellows of love of God, and He wanted to propagate devotional service in the world on the platform of spontaneous attraction. Thus He is known as supremely jubilant and as the most merciful of all. CC Ādi (4.15-16)]

…in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta it has been told. Kṛṣṇa is rasika-śekhara and in other hand He is parama-karuṇa. Parama-karuṇa He wants to be rasa-āsvādana.

GBC: Taste.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

GBC: Taste. Taste the rāsas.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He wants that all should do rasa-āsvādana of my rūpa, guṇa, līlā, and all these things. What is rasa-āsvādana?

GBC: Relish. Taste or relish.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He makes that all should taste My all mādhurya.

GBC: Ah.

Śrīla Gurudeva: No? So, this is karuṇa; and He is madhu. So, by two reasons He come down in bhauma Vṛndāvana, or Mathurā or Dvārakā, so that they may easily can taste and they should return back to their home, to Me. This is the reason. Tomorrow, uh, yesterday, I told one thing; I had some false. That everyone wants ānanda. No? Everyone like to pursuing how to get ānanda and they are running after ānanda. Here ānanda means sukhe, no? But really sukhe and ānanda are different things — sukhe means "for ourself" and ānanda means…

(Hindi aside)…

ānanda is for Kṛṣṇa happiness but yet some happiness uchista can, rasika bhakta, can taste. Understand?

GBC: Um…

Śrīla Gurudeva: What I have told? In pure language.

GBC: That when you give Kṛṣṇa ānanda, ānanda is meant for Kṛṣṇa and then the devotee relishes that taste when Kṛṣṇa is pleased. He relishes happiness himself.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He also tastes that sukhe. In ānanda there is sukhe and ānanda both. No? So, all are pursuing for sukhe. But there is a place where ānanda is pursuing men or anything; ānanda can pursue us. We, everyone, pursue, follow, how we can get ānanda; ānanda is running and we are running after; but in Vṛndāvana svayam mūrtiman ānanda is pursuing bhaktas. Here is opposite.

GBC: Reversal.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Reverse. How? Calves and sakhās were stolen and Kṛṣṇa thinks, "Where they are, where they are?" And He is weeping and lamenting. No? Here bhakta is not pursuing Kṛṣṇa but Kṛṣṇa is pursuing. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa is weeping, "Where is My mother. Where is Nanda baba?" He wants to get up on the laps of Yaśodā so He is hankering after. Nanda baba is standing, Yaśodā Maiyā is standing, or have gone in anywhere, and He is searching them. Kṛṣṇa is mūrtiman Brahmā:

aho bhāgyam aho bhāgyaṁ
 nanda-gopa-vrajaukasām
yan-mitraṁ paramānandaṁ
 pūrṇaṁ brahma sanātanam

[How greatly fortunate are Nanda Mahārāja, the cowherd men and all the other inhabitants of Vrajabhūmi! There is no limit to their good fortune, because the Absolute Truth, the source of transcendental bliss, the eternal Supreme Brahman, has become their friend. SB (10.14.32)]

You know this śloka? You?

GBC: I'm not sure.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Brahmā is telling in his prayer: aho bhāgyaṁ, not one time but more than two times, three times. Kṛṣṇa is an ocean of rāsa, raso vai saḥ, but yet He is karuṇa. Here He has come down and He makes friendship with all cows, calves, even creepers, even to trees and plants. Follow me? Everyone. Peacocks, cuckoo birds, deers, everyone. They also follow but Kṛṣṇa also follows them. This is the sign of rāsa or prema. Only bhakta will search Kṛṣṇa but, no, here is not that thing. Kṛṣṇa will search them.

GBC: Kṛṣṇa akarsini (bhakta attracts Kṛṣṇa).

Śrīla Gurudeva: In Vṛndāvana, especially in Vṛndāvana. This is the speciality of Vṛndāvana. He is eager to give that prema, that rāsa, to jīvas; and that is why He has come down in Vṛndāvana, this is the main thing. So, He is giving. But we should not see that Kṛṣṇa is giving, by bhakti, bhakti is coming out. He will tell it afterward.

(pause @ 10 seconds).

When Kṛṣṇa is [in] Goloka, Vṛndāvana, Goloka Vṛndāvana, a sādhaka bhāva bhakta, will not have darśana of Kṛṣṇa; but here sādhaka bhāva bhakta and premī-bhakta, [these] can realize Kṛṣṇa by bāhire indriya and antaḥ indriya.

GBC: Outside and inside.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Outside and inside. Siddha bhakta will only realize Kṛṣṇa by antaḥ indriya in Goloka, not by these outer indriyas. But here a sādhaka may, can see, taste Kṛṣṇa; can hear by outer indriyas also. So, Kṛṣṇa is available here and by that, not for that time, but crores and crores years afterward also a sādhaka can hear that Kṛṣṇa has done so many pastimes; and by hearing and chanting and remembering he will have that thing. So, Kṛṣṇa comes with His associates and does so mādhur pastimes here. To give bhakti. This is called bhakti because bhakti is combination of hlādinī and samvit. You know? How combination of hlādinī and samvit? Hlādinī means ānanda and samvit [means] jñāna or bhāva. We don't want jñāna but we want bhāva. This bhāva and ānanda is called, combination, it is called bhakti and afterward, in ripened condition, it is called prema, bhāva, mahābhāva, anurāga, all these things.

So, it lives in the associates of Kṛṣṇa and in Kṛṣṇa also. If Kṛṣṇa gives bhakti it may be called that from bhakti bhakti has come because śakti and Śaktimān are one thing. If there was no hlādinī and samvit in Kṛṣṇa then Kṛṣṇa could not give it. So, it may be called that from bhakti bhakti has come, ṭīkhai?

GBC: (chuckles) We are drinking all your words.

GBC: This bhakti is svatantra from Kṛṣṇa even?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Huh?

GBC: Bhakti is svatantra from Kṛṣṇa even?

Śrīla Gurudeva: If Kṛṣṇa does not want to give bhakti but a bhakta prays and makes him so poor, so karuṇa, that at once Kṛṣṇa [will be] bound to give bhakti.

GBC: I think the bhakta is more independent than Kṛṣṇa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Um…because Kṛṣṇa is vasibhutabhakta vasibhuta. So…

GBC: (chuckles) …our position…

Śrīla Gurudeva: No, your Prabhupāda…

GBC: And you also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Not myself. I am very particle of…

GBC: Wherever it may be coming from originally, it is…we are getting it from your hands.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You are giving me praise.

So, what may be, either by the wish of Kṛṣṇa and either by wish of vaiṣṇavas bhakti comes by bhakti and bhakti is svaicchamoy, svaicchamoy you know?

Audience: Independent.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Independently bhakti comes; and it creates icchā in Kṛṣṇa and bhaktas to do kṛpā.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
 yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
 yayātmā suprasīdati

[The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely satisfy the self. SB (1.2.6)]

He has given instance where how bhakti comes: sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo / yato bhaktir adhokṣaje / ahaituky apratihatā / yayātmā suprasīdati. Here ahaituky means uh…

GBC: Causeless.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Causeless. She comes. If She comes in anyone's heart then suprasīdati. That sādhaka becomes suprasanna

Audience: Very happy.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Very happy.

(Hindi aside)…

You can come here.

(Hindi aside)…

Here ahaituky means by svaiccha

GBC: Independence.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Independence. Kṛṣṇa and bhakta are not bound to give His mercy [to] those who are sadachari, they know Vedas; anywhere it can fall. But I think there must be some saṁskāra there, without saṁskāra anyone can not have this Kṛṣ…whether Kṛṣṇa is giving but he can not have bhakti if there is no saṁskāra; but yet, if Kṛṣṇa wants and bhakta wants they can do everything. Like Kāliya-nāga was refusing everything…

GBC: No saṁskāras

Śrīla Gurudeva: No saṁskāra…but he has some saṁskāra by his wives; they wanted and that is why Kṛṣṇa did His mercy. But it is called ahaituky. Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Pūtanā — all are in category of ahaituky. Pūtanā wanted to Kṛṣṇa to fall down from his breast but yet Kṛṣṇa catch hold very tightly. She tried so many times but could not…throw. So, these are ahaituky; I don't want You, I don't want Your mercy, but I will do mercy. This is called ahaituky kṛpā. We pray that Kṛṣṇa should do with us also, especially with me, I don't want. Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī has told like this for Sanātana Gosvāmī. Anabhīpsoḥanabhīpsoḥ I don't…I…

Audience: …unwilling…don't want…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Unwilling. I was unwilling but yet He forcibly he gave it.

GBC: Our Gurudeva said the same thing about your Gurudeva.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh…

GBC: That he forced him to take sannyāsa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: By explaining this śloka. He has written to me. I am obliged for giving, uh, having, that letter from him.

Here ahaituky in other śloka also:

yadṛcchayā mat-kathādau
 jāta-śraddhas tu yaḥ pumān
na nirviṇṇo nāti-sakto
 bhakti-yogo 'sya siddhi-daḥ

[If somehow or other by good fortune one develops faith in hearing and chanting My glories, such a person, being neither disgusted with nor very much attached to material life, should achieve perfection through the path of loving devotion to Me. SB (11.20.8)]

Who can have this bhakti? There are three kinds of person in this world. So many classes of persons here but especially, as a whole, we can divide it in three: karma, jñānī, and bhakta. Here, who can have bhakti: yadṛcchayā mat-kathādau / jāta-śraddhas tu yaḥ pumān / na nirviṇṇo nāti-sakto. Those who are not so much vairāgya (vana); either they are not so much āsakta with visayāsakta…?

GBC: Attached to enjoyment.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Ah, attached. In middle they should be.

GBC: Neither attached nor adverse.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Both should be…both should be there but not too much. If anyone has not tasted this world, any of the thing, because this is the shadow of that perverted…perflection.

GBC: Perverted reflection. Perverted, perverted reflection.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh, uh. Of that Goloka Vṛndāvana. So, we have some taste in this world. We have some prīti each other, prema each other, no? If we have no that we can not go towards Kṛṣṇa; if we have too much nirviṇṇaḥnirviṇṇaḥ meaning uh…?

Audience: Not so much attached.

Śrīla Gurudeva: We are so much vairāgya vana bhakti will not come; and we are so much attached to this world bhakti can not come. There should be some attachment and there should some vairāgya also.

Audience: Both should be…

GBC: Is that when beginning the process of bhakti? Isn't when you…

Śrīla Gurudeva: In everyone, everyone, every jīvas these are symptoms. Anyhow it will be in every jīva. But some who are more attached to this world they become karmī; and those who are not at all attached, they are full vairāgya vana, they may go to jñāna, mukti. So, in the middle this stage is so much better for bhakti. If they are attached to this world and they are directed to Kṛṣṇa then that attachment is so much helpful for the sādhaka in doing bhakti. Like Bilvamaṅgala, like any others. From boyhood, if anyone is so much disconnected to these things it is very hard to go towards bhakti; they will surely go to jñāna and mukti. That is why all the scholars of India went towards Saṅkarācārya, advaita-vādī. They become advaita-vādī and became jñānī and mukti-vairāgī.

Audience: Why?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Because they were…

GBC: Too detached. They were not attached to anything in this world.

Śrīla Gurudeva: We see Caitanya Mahāprabhu. At first He was so much attached. He was with girls he used to do so much mazāka, mazāka means…

Audience: Joke.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Joke. And to quarrel with boys with tarka-yukti and also in Kṛṣṇa boyhood we see, in any bhakta we see. Like this.

Here yadṛcchayā

What are you telling? Any question?

GBC: You are saying this is an amazing point that we have not heard, but I was saying, I thought that, in Nectar of Devotion, Rūpa Gosvāmī composed the verses of yukta-vairāgya — that this was the explanation. We did not realize before.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī has written in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta:

viṣaye je prīti ebe āchaye āmār
sei-mata prīti hauk caraṇe tomār

[Let me love Your lotus feet as much as I now love sense gratification; transfer my affection from the objects of the senses to Your lotus feet. Prabhu Tava Pada Yuge (5)]

There should be viṣaye prīti and that prīti should be converted in towards Kṛṣṇa — that is bhakti. Otherwise, if anyone has no attachment, no prīti for any jīva, it is so that he will not have bhakti, prema. So, God has given this viṣaye prīti as a very good thing. Only we have to convert it in bhakti. Very good thing. This world is certainly a very good thing. This yuga is very good thing , Kali-yuga. By only transferring our prīti it will be bhakti. It is so hard but by the grace of our spiritual master it can be so easy. But if we have guru niṣṭha then…

Here yadṛcchayā, what is the meaning of yadṛcchayā? He has telling in…?

GBC: By His own independent sweet will.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Kṛṣṇa.

GBC: Uh.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Acchā. Now he is telling that yadṛcchayā "by His own sweet will" why He does not do to all jīvas? If He does to any special jīva then God can be said that He has some partiality and if God has partiality then it is in virtue. Because in śāstra He has been called sama-darśiṣu; sama-darśiṣu you know?

GBC: Equal to all.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Equal to all.

GBC: Sees everyone equally.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Because He is Creator, He is Father and Mother and He is everyone to every jīva. He should not be partial. A guru should not be partial. But we see that both are partial.

(Laughing).

You realize?

(More laughing).

Guru is certainly partial. You also, perhaps you have realized.

GBC: That is the thing we all have realized. (Laughing).

Śrīla Gurudeva: (ṭīkā) Someone told that this yadṛcchayā…what word…?

GBC: Independence.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Independence…

GBC: It's svatantra right?

Śrīla Gurudeva: …is nothing more than bhāgyaḥ.

GBC: Fortune, luck.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Luck. But what is called "luck"? What is called "luck"? That luck is, comes from, śubha-karma

GBC: Auspicious activities.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …or special activities. From where it comes? It tells that no, śubha-karma, abhāva of śubha-karma or bhāva of śubha-karma. You know Hindi some? Some Hindi?

Audience: Lack of good activities or not.

Śrīla Gurudeva: It is written in…

GBC: Uh.

Śrīla Gurudeva: What?

GBC: Auspicious activity: puṇya or pāpa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Abhāva or pāpa meaning bhakti

GBC: Good fortune.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh? Good fortune. Or lack of fortune. If we have no really karma, it is good for us? For bhakti?

GBC: No karma?

Śrīla Gurudeva: No karma: jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [from CC Madhya (19.167)]. There should no karma, no jñāna at all. It is for uttamā bhakti. It is essential?

GBC: That is only taṭastha lakṣaṇā that is not…

Śrīla Gurudeva: If God, or any bhakta, has any mercy on us at first He washes both things: aśubha-karma and śubha-karma. Without washing śubha and aśubha-karma a man can not have pure bhakti, uttamā bhakti. And uh, for instance, in Bhāgavatam, giving the instance of gopīs, it has been told that, uh:

(unknown)

Here it has been told that by viraha

Audience: Separation.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Separation. Fire burnt in their heart and that fire burnt up all aśubha of gopīs. And after that one gopīs, or all gopīs, who were stopped in the home…

Audience: …by their husbands…

Śrīla Gurudeva: …by their husbands, by remembering Kṛṣṇa they took Kṛṣṇa in their heart and they embraced Kṛṣṇa. In this (unknown- milan) all śubha went away. When śubha and aśubha both went away then prema comes and Kṛṣṇa was at once realized and He took all gopīs to rāsa (sthalī). So, by practicing bhakti śubha and aśubha both should be washed otherwise uttamā bhakti will not came, have there. Only karma-miśra-bhakti or jñāna-miśra-bhakti that is called pradhānī-bhūta, guṇī-bhūta, (indistinct)…

GBC: Gauṇa-bhakti.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Gauṇa-bhakti. These bhakti can be achieved. Not uttamā. So, here he is telling that if we take bhāgyaḥ that:

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

["According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service. CC Madhya (19.151)]

Here kona kona bhāgyavān what is the meaning of bhāgyavān? Huh? He is telling bhāgyavān those who have some saṁskāra; that saṁskāra is not karma jñānika; not…

GBC: Jñānika. Not jñāna either.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …jñāna or karma.

(Hindi aside)…You should.

GBC: We understanding.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Sense essence you should take.

GBC: Yeah, we are getting the sense.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You are getting?

GBC: Yes.

Śrīla Gurudeva: What I have told?

GBC: You are saying that uttamā bhakti can not be gotten so far if one has any miśra; if there is either bhāgyaḥ or if it's not bhāgyaḥ, fortunate or unfortunate, both things have to go.

Śrīla Gurudeva: But here what is the meaning of bhāgyavān? kona kona bhāgyavān pāya.

GBC: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said that there are two types of bhāgyaḥ:one which leads to bhakti and one which does not lead to bhakti. So, the one that doesn't lead to bhakti is not real bhāgyaḥ but the one that leads to bhakti is real bhāgyaḥ and that comes from association of vaiṣṇavas.

Śrīla Gurudeva: From (unknown) a kind of saṁskāra comes in our heart and that is essential. Then we can know bhakta, we can serve bhakta; otherwise a bhakta will come to anyone but he will not recognize. He will not do action. He will not associate with bhakta. So, kona kona bhāgyavān pāya, here, he is telling that it is not due to śubha karma or due to lackness of aśubha karma.

If it is told that due to śubha karma we have get some saṁskāra and bhakta has mercy upon him and by the…due to this śubha karma we have been inclined towards bhakti then sva-prakāśita, that self…

GBC: …manifest…

Śrīla Gurudeva: …manifestation of bhakti, is not there.

GBC: Everything is very clear.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Acchā. If we take bhāgyaḥ, no reason at all behind it, how this bhāgyaḥ can come? If there is no any reason; if (so) it becomes absurd. So, here bhāgyaḥ means the mercy of bhakta or Bhagavān. If we take it that that bhāgyaḥ came from Kṛṣṇa by, due to, the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and we inclined towards bhakti then why Kṛṣṇa has done kṛpā to that bhakta? Why to not all bhaktas? So, we will have to see the reasons again and again. And at last we see that not anything come in our hand.

But in every śāstra it has been told that, by the grace of Bhagavān, or bhakta, bhakti can be had. So, it is not untrue. It is true.

If God is, Kṛṣṇa is, bhakta-vatsala, why not to others? But this vaiṣamyamvaiṣamyam…any word there?

Audience: Dissimilarities.

GBC: Contradiction.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

GBC: Contradiction…

Śrīla Gurudeva: …uh, contradiction, is bhūṣaṇa, is ornament, of Bhagavān. He has told that, "I have given my heart to bhakta and bhakta has given Kṛṣṇa his heart. I don't know rather than bhaktas and bhakta does not rather than Me." So, here it is not vaiṣamyam. If Kṛṣṇa has, is doing, ahaitukī kṛpā to any bhakta it is bhūṣaṇa, not dūṣaṇa.

Like we see that Kṛṣṇa has done pratijñā, pratijñā you know?

Audience: Promise…

Śrīla Gurudeva: …promise, to Arjuna and Duryodhana both. That, "I will not fight. I will have no weapon. I will only be the sārathiḥ of Arjuna. And when He went to the battlefield Bhīṣma promised that, "If I am my father's son then Kṛṣṇa will have to take weapon in His hand and He will have to fight." Here we see that to keep the promise of Bhīṣmapitamaha Kṛṣṇa left His own promise and fulfilled the promise of Bhīṣma. This is not disqualification of Kṛṣṇa but it is qualification of Kṛṣṇa, bhakta vatsala. Anywhere we see. To taste rāsa in Vraja He tells lies. He does so many offenses, Kṛṣṇa, Himself; but all are not offenses but all are…

GBC: Ornaments.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Ornaments. So, if Kṛṣṇa gives any jīva that bhāgyaḥ it is not vaiṣamyam.

Here if anyone says that, "By the grace of vaiṣṇavas, bhakta, bhakti is found," no harm. But someone can raise some questions: Why he has done so? Why he is not giving bhakti* to all others? Only to this special man, to a special sādhaka. Here he tells that for uttamā-adhikārī it may be vaiṣamyam; for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī he can not give; but for madhyama-adhikārī it has been told that:

īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
 bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā
 yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ

[An intermediate or second-class devotee, called madhyama-adhikārī, offers his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a sincere friend to all the devotees of the Lord, shows mercy to ignorant people who are innocent and disregards those who are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. SB 11.2.46]

So, madhyama-adhikārī he can give that bhāgyaḥ and by that madhyama-adhikārī Kṛṣṇa is bound to give His bhakti. So, here is not vaiṣamyam. So, this vaiṣṇava, madhyama-adhikārī vaiṣṇava, has so many duties: to do pracāra; to have mercy upon all surrendered souls or those who are qualified. They may not have so much jñāna or siddhānta but they should be very simple and saralā. Ignorance may be there but they should be saralā…?

Audience: Simple-hearted.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

Audience: Simple. Simple-hearted.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Simple-hearted. Not anything here and…

GBC: Hypocrisy.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

GBC: Hypocrisy. Hypocrite.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Hypocrisy. Not that thing.

GBC: But, if they are too simple, they may not know how to distinguish between a…they can not be too simple. They must have some sense otherwise they will distinguish between those who are not worthy of giving kṛpā to.

Śrīla Gurudeva: If anyone wants truly to have bhakti he will realize all these things, by the mercy of his gurudeva and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Surely they will realize these things. If I am doing anything against bhakti principle at once a stroke will come here: that maybe from caityaḥ guru or gurudeva or anyone, anyhow it will come and we will know. But our cit is so durbalāḥ, so weak, that sometimes we avoid all these things and go down.

So, he is telling that if God has to do mercy upon any bhakta, to give bhakti to anyone, having have to give it by a madhyama-adhikārī, not directly. If bhakti herself wants to come in anyone's heart he will come first in the heart of madhyama-adhikārī and he will pray to bhakti or Kṛṣṇa then bhakti will come there.

So, he is telling that bhakti, Bhagavāt kṛpā, is Kṛṣṇa bhakta anugāmī. Understand?

Audience: Following the devotees.

Śrīla Gurudeva: What you have understood?

GBC: Just that last…I understood everything except that last part.

Śrīla Gurudeva: What anugāmī

GBC: That the mercy of the Lord follows the mercy of the bhakta.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Without following any madhyama-adhikārī bhakta Kṛṣṇa can not do kṛpā. That is…we see in prayer of nāga-patni. They have relation with nāga also, that, "We are wife of this nāga." They can not leave, Kālīya also, for they are also bhakta. So, they are not uttamā bhakta but if they are uttamā bhakta they should have left 'till that time. That he is doing opposite, he is wrestling Kṛṣṇa so we should leave him; but they were waiting. And when they saw that now Kālīya is repenting then they began to pray Kṛṣṇa that, "Save that person." And by telling, by prayer, Kṛṣṇa, um…rakṣā kaila

Audience: Protected.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …protected that person and gave His bhakti also.

So, here that bhakta has some mercy of bhakti devī; bhakti is there and from that bhakti madhyama-adhikārī has prayed Kṛṣṇa or bhakti devī. So, bhakti comes from bhakti only:

[bhaktyā sañjātayā bhaktyā SB (11.3.31)]

Here, for a sadhaka in the stage of sadhana bhakti bhāva bhakti or prema bhakti comes. Without sādhana bhakti a bhakta can not…bhāva bhakti or prema bhakti will never come.

GBC: So, this is how bhakti-latā-bīja [CC Madhya (19.151)]. This is the bīja.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh, bīja. But we should think that uh…our Gurudeva was telling once, that that bīja, seed, is within jīva svarūpa or where it is? From, from out it has been given or inside it is?

What we should think?

GBC: Well we say jīvera 'svarūpa' hayakṛṣṇera 'nitya-dāsa' [CC Madhya (20.108-109)]. Original feature is to be servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So, you should be in (indistinct) and we should realize this. That is given to him.

We have some upākhyāna in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta. There was a brāhmaṇa and he had one son. He died, that brāhmaṇa, and he did not tell that, "I have something in my house anywhere hidden." He became so poor. There was nothing in his home. One day the friend of his father came and told that, "You seem so much poor and so much distressed."

He told that, "I have nothing to take, eat, or to wear or to do anything. I am so much poor."

He told that, "You are not poor. Your father was so much rich person and you are also rich person."

He told that, "I have nothing. I am penniless."

He told that, "I know that your father has kept something in this area and I know where it is."

He became so much pleased. That dhana

Audience: Charity. That gift. Wealth.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Wealth is hidden anywhere in this home. He at once, without asking where it is, he went to North and began to dig.

"Don't do so. Here there is a yakṣa; yakṣa means apadevatā…(break in audio file)…dakṣiṇe means south. There are so many dangerous, poisonous…

Audience: Bees.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …bees at once caught you and you will die."

"What should I do?"

"Oh, don't do anything. Where I am showing you that place, I know that place and you will have to dig so much. So, come with me and I am going and showing you that place. Easily you will get."

He at once took him and told that, "Here you can dig."

He dug very little and saw that in a golden pot there were so many (unknown) there and he became so much pleased.

This was to give him wealth but wealth was there from before. So, in your svarūpa we are Kṛṣṇa dāsa by svarūpa but we are forgotten it. Guru tells that by this process you can have this. This is to give śrāddha. But śrāddha is in a jīva. But something he gives.

What he gives?

If there is cloud, only cloud will not do rain. There should be mountains and jungles to check the clouds. So, here śrāddha is there but for prakā-ting our śrāddha.

GBC: Manifestation.

Śrīla Gurudeva: To illuminate that śrāddha. Hlādinī and samvit, in whose heart is there, they can do kṛpā to them; to create their, to illuminate, their śrāddha. Any other person can not do. So, guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (bhakti-latā-bīja) [CC Madhya (19.151)], there was but he was missing and by their mercy he received that thing and he became so much wealthy.

So, here.

GBC: One question. Is, this is…does guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya

Śrīla Gurudeva: …bhakti-latā-bīja

GBC: …and when he was giving hlādinī…this is hlādinī samvit or this is…?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Bhakti is hlādinī and samvit (unknown) bhāva so something, ābhāsa or anything, has been given there — to illuminate bhakti.

GBC: First.

Śrīla Gurudeva: First. Like a seed can not do anything. When a seed has some water and clay then it can be seed. Likewise.

GBC: And then later, complete.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Complete.

Today.

GBC: I have one letter for you. It was sent by one devotee in the West.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh?

GBC: Somebody brought it from the West. He came from America…

Śrīla Gurudeva: In Hindi?

GBC: The person is…lived in Delhi but knew you. It's Viṣṇu-dāsa.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Viṣṇu-dāsa.

GBC: You stayed in his house in Delhi.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Oh.

GBC: He lives in Houston now.

Śrīla Gurudeva: In U.S.A.

GBC: In Houston, Texas.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Texas?

GBC: I have not met him but they told me he lives with…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Very good boy.

GBC: Where that Girirāja silā is, he is there now.

Śrīla Gurudeva: He is disciple of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

(Reading letter) He has written in Hindi but he knows very good English. He has written very good Hindi.

(Hindi aside)…

A flower, it is not in his full blossom. When it is bud. I am giving only that thing in your feet.

Houston. You have been there?

GBC: Uh, that is…

Śrīla Gurudeva: (indistinct)…very good, very beautiful. Śrī Rādhā-nir-Mādhava or Gaura-Nitāi, Gauracandra vigraha… (Hindi aside)…

You have given you and that Girirāja is so Madana-mohana. Madana-mohana you know? He stole…

GBC: Steals the mind.

Śrīla Gurudeva: (Hindi aside)… all devotees serve him. (Reading from letter)…he is telling that almost all bhaktas know you. Whether they have taken darśana or not; Tamāla Kṛṣṇa prabhu has beaten drum for my name.

Audience: (Giggles)

Śrīla Gurudeva: He is telling that we were all waiting for that time, the time of Girirāja pratitha so that you could come, but you could not come. (Hindi aside)…you should come. We will all help you and we will all serve. There will be not difficulty at all. There is no summer and no winter. (Hindi aside)…but it has not such beautiful as Vṛndāvana but yet something is there. If you come here, here also Vraja will come.

(Break in tape. Traveling in vehicle.)

GBC: I have some question from Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Um.

GBC: That, uh, Rūpa Gosvāmī says that all of the devotees of the different avatars are very good but the devotees of Kṛṣṇa are the best because devotees of the others they can get attracted to Kṛṣṇa but the devotees of Kṛṣṇa they can never be attracted by any other form. Now some examples are quoted like Lakṣmī, especially Lakṣmī. But sometimes we also hear that the devotee is completely satisfied in his relationship with the Lord. Like Hanumān is completely satisfied in his relationship with Rāma, he doesn't want to change. So, how is it that Lakṣmī and also the queens in Dvārakā, except for the eight principle queens, they also prayed for the dust of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So, but their eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa in Dvārakā or Vaikuṇṭha so how do they get this um…?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Very good question. You can answer. I will hear your answer.

GBC: Uddhava also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You do. Certainly. I want to hear.

GBC: We want you to speak.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I will speak, but I want to hear you.

GBC: Well, maybe he should give his idea first.

GBC: He always does this (laughing). Because you said that he knows everything, so I want to prove you right.

GBC: Well, Kṛṣṇa has some qualities which Vāsudeva and Nārāyaṇa don't have. So, even though they have eternal relationship with Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, or Nārāyaṇa still they can appreciate that Kṛṣṇa has some more qualities which the others don't have and they want to experience those but they are not ready to give up their own svarūpa and their own aiśvarya bhāva.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Why Hanumān could not give up own bhāva but Lakṣmī wanted, why?

GBC: One thing is that Kṛṣṇa and Nārāyaṇa…Kṛṣṇa…Nārāyaṇa is Kṛṣṇa in one form and Kṛṣṇa is more…the husband is the same person; so, there is nothing wrong if the wife wants to go to the forest to be with the husband.

Śrīla Gurudeva: That similar case with Hanumān; Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are one but he never goes. Murāri never went.

GBC: His attachment is stronger.

Śrīla Gurudeva: I think that Lakṣmī is not less than Hanumān. He has very strong attachment. But yet I can see that Lakṣmī is woman. Their hearts are so soft and they are so much attracted with the love. A male can not. Women can do everything against her principle if her…for love they can do. So, Lakṣmī, by Her sva-bhāva, by nature, She can leave; but Hanumān is in male form and he…whether he wants but he will not leave.

The heart of both…very very soft. They can have love. They worship beauty, love…four things which Kṛṣṇa has special. But for Hanumān…

GBC: No…

Śrīla Gurudeva: I have not uh…

GBC: Read anywhere…

Śrīla Gurudeva: …read anywhere or went to this question.

GBC: Because it is a common sense answer.

GBC: Very high level of common sense (laughing).

GBC: Special sense.

GBC: Now, can I ask some other question? If some…like, in the case of Gopa-kumāra, first he went to Vaikuṇṭha, then he went to Ayodhyā, then to Dvārakā, and finally to Goloka-Vraja. But in ordinary cases, if some jīva has the seed of Vraja bhakti is it sure that he will get the association of some rasika vaiṣṇava that will awaken his Vraja bhakti or is it possible that he can only do sādhana bhakti and in spite of having the seed only go to Vaikuṇṭha?

Śrīla Gurudeva: We see that every jīva has his some kind of svarūpa. Every jīva. But we see that all jīvas, conditional souls, are moving from years and years and births, anādi kāla, so, it is not that any jīva will have rasika vaiṣṇava if he has Vraja bhakti seed here. No, question. By rotation and rotation we have some tendency in this birth. At first he will have to do…he will come to name…process of vaidhī-bhakti; rāgānuga-bhakti is so hard. You should not seek for rāgānuga-bhajana. Anyhow, it may be that most of jīva will have to go through Gopa-kumāra channel.

GBC: You mean they can go first to Vaikuṇṭha…

Śrīla Gurudeva: First they should go to any general bhakta and they may go to…going on sādhana bhakti and by chance if a rāgānuga-vaiṣṇava is found then he can go direct to Vraja or, otherwise, he will have to go to Vaikuṇṭha or anywhere. But I see that in this world he will have everything — where to go and where not to go. He will decide here.

This is sādhana kṣetra. In Vaikuṇṭha any new thing is not decided; and there is no sādhana bhajana there. He has only told it, Sanātana Gosvāmī has only told it, by that Gopa-kumāra upākhyāna to understand that where, what thing is there.

GBC: But we hear that in Vraja the pancha Pāṇḍavas are doing some austerity at Rādhā-kuṇḍa or Nārada is doing, Lakṣmī is doing, but their eternal svarūpa is not in Vraja, what we understand. So, what can they…what do they hope to get from their practices in Vraja?

Śrīla Gurudeva: For Nārada it is hard. He mostly lives in Vaikuṇṭha and serves Nārāyaṇa. But in other svarūpa he goes to Goloka-Vaikuṇṭha also, Goloka Vraja also. There he is in the shape of Madhumaṅgala also; but yet he is in Nārada kuṇḍa in this prakaṭa Vraja he is doing ārādhana of Rādhikā to have gopī bhāva. In his Madhumaṅgala svarūpa he is there in sanātana bhāva, for perpetual that svarūpa will be there. But yet he wants to serve in gopī bhāva. And that bhāva he has yet received or not? It has not been told anywhere.

GBC: As Madhumaṅgala, is Madhumaṅgala a separate personality than Nārada?

Śrīla Gurudeva: No.

GBC: Absolutely the same person.

Śrīla Gurudeva: But it has been told in Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa has so many shapes and if Kṛṣṇa's shape also He is doing pastimes in so many various brahmāṇḍas in various Kṛṣṇa svarūpa so, the associates of Kṛṣṇa they have also so many shapes.

GBC: Śrīdāmā, Garuḍa…

Śrīla Gurudeva: All, Nanda baba, Yaśodā, everyone…Lalitā, Viśākhā, everyone. So, Nārada has many shapes. If a man, if a sādhaka, wants to serve Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa at the same time it has been told that they will have two shapes. And they will serve Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa also.

We should serve Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa in guidance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, always. That may do everything. By mentally thinking the līlās of and the charity udarata of Caitanya Mahāprabhu we should always chant Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and always…(break audio)…

(indistinct) Ṭhākura has never told that I am so and so. I am that gopī; I am doing service of this. But he is always praying that I should do like this. We should do follow him. He has never expressed that I am a siddha bhakta or is any books does he so.

GBC: Do we know, even though he has never expressed, do we know…

Śrīla Gurudeva: He has written for us that any you should think himself to be any gopī. Saṅkalpa-kalpadruma — only we should do saṅkalpa. By the mercy of gopas and gopīs Śrīmati Rādhikā, Lalitā, Viśākhā. We should be engaged in that sevā. Doing not all…

GBC: I read in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu-bindu Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that we need to enter into Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā through Gaurāṅga līlā.

Śrīla Gurudeva: This is true and this is certainly a fact.

GBC: So, how does one think through these things?

Śrīla Gurudeva: Always remembering the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and his followers. That is the way.

GBC: And remembering the pastimes of Mahāprabhu? Like that?

Śrīla Gurudeva: His mercy that He…(indistinct)…

GBC: Mahārāja I have one question about how to improve the japa of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to make it…

Śrīla Gurudeva: Always remembering the mercy of harināma you should chant.

GBC: While chanting remembering the mercy of harināma.

Śrīla Gurudeva: How He is so merciful.

GBC: Is there a way to, a system, to also remember the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Śrīla Gurudeva: What our gosvāmīs have done. They have left for us. How they have chanted name. Remembering…

(break audio)

Anything wrong?

Rūpa Gosvāmī is telling that chant harināma remember the mercy of that name and the pastimes connected with that name. Like — Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Śrī Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī and Gopāla Guru have written in their books how to chant and how to remember the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and Mahāprabhu.

Hari — hari harati Rādhā manaḥ / hare harati Kṛṣṇa manaḥ. Both meanings. And how, by what pastimes, Śrīmati Rādhikā harati manaḥ of Kṛṣṇa we should think. When and where Śrīmati Rādhikā has uh…what…?

Audience: Attracted.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …attracted Kṛṣṇa. hare harati Rādhikā harati Kṛṣṇa manaḥ towards kuñja. How? You can remember here rāsa līlā and all gosvāmīs they have written. In what verse you are. You can cowherding and all these things.

GBC: Is it good while chanting to stop and read a little bit and then chant some more to help this remembrance?

Śrīla Gurudeva: You can do if it is anukūla for you.

At first we should (break audio) that we are so conditioned souls. We are full of kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, and mātsarya. These are not going, they are pursuing us. So, nāma is so (unknown) by His mercy we can only have rescue from all these things.

GBC: Only by his mercy.

Śrīla Gurudeva: So, at first we should cry for mercy. We should weep for mercy. Then anything should be remembered. At first this thing. We are wretched soul, worthless soul. So, repentance should come. In the lotus feet of harināma. Thinking that harināma is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa there, yugala.

GBC: It seems like it takes real humility to cry. To cry and be in that mood and weeping. One has to be so humble.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Certainly we will have to cry for these things at first. Then anything will come. As Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Narottama Ṭhākura they have stated in their songs that we are very kāmi, krodhi, lobhi, mohi. We have no (indistinct) of bhakti*.

(arriving to destination)

GBC: You don't want us to take you to Rādhā-Dāmodara? We are so close.

Śrīla Gurudeva: You will have to go and again come here.

GBC: But for us it is no problem. How you will go from here?

Śrīla Gurudeva: On foot. If I want I will take a rickshaw or…

GBC: No, we will take you.

Śrīla Gurudeva: Uh? There also I will have to go on foot.

GBC: We can carry you. (indistinct) will put you on his shoulders. Rickshaw?

Śrīla Gurudeva: From here you can go. But again you will have to…

(break audio)

GBC: His business is to create conflict.

(break audio)

Śrīla Gurudeva: One has heard something told, he has something told: it seems like they are in conflict but they are in same way.

GBC: The main point is that our Guru Mahārāja created a GBC to resolve these types of things but this man has no purpose to end. Another main purpose in the book that he wanted to do is to show how ISKCON and the GBC offended Śrīdhar Mahārāja. And his point he keeps bringing out also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: In this book…

GBC: In this book also.

Śrīla Gurudeva: …I have seen.

GBC: Very openly he says that. Because he took sannyāsa from one of the devotees who had taken shelter of Śrīdhar Mahārāja.

(END AUDIO)